What's your bear-making goal

[Jenny]

I haven't got time to answer this right now as I am off to work.....yuck!

But what's your goal in bear making....why do you make them and where do you hope it leads....?

That'll get you thinking on this murky Saturday morning!!!!!

[All Bear]

What a great question Jenny!

Hmmmn.

*Scratches head*

Well, my goal has always been to be my own boss and I've achieved that. I also wanted to achieve sound recognition as a maker/designer of quality bears ... and I've achieved that. So now, my goal has to be to earn more money for the hours of hard graft I put in! That's the only aspect which is a constant struggle. It's very frustrating not to be more financially stable in view of the fact that I run my own business with all that entails, market my work from start to finish, design the product, make the product, have achieved a good solid reputation, excellent administrative skills and yet still can't compete with the 'real world' in terms of paying myself a reasonable salary.

[Melanie Jayne]

Oh Jenny that is such a tough question and one that I have recently been thinking about too. I think at the present time I would like to work towards establishing myself as a reputable artist in the bear industry. Being relatively new to the world of artist bears means that it is not always easy to open the doors to new avenues and it is a constant struggle to maintain good marketing which has to be balanced with cost. Although I do think I have been lucky so far, yet I have worked hard and I have had many opportunities in my short career as a bear artist I think long term I would like to step my way up the hierarchy of artists, become accepted among the best and strive to be the best at what I do. Obviously this is a long long term goal and something I would like to eventually earn for myself, by working hard and always looking for ways to do something better.

[Jenny]

Right..I'm home now after slogging over a hot pair of scissors since 7.30 am and now have time to answer my own question

When I started I didn't have a goal..I just wanted to get good at bear -making. Then I kind of got better at it and the goal posts moved and I wanted to create a design that was unique to me..and one that made my bears recognisable. I think I achieved that with the 'chubby cheeked' look.

Then I guess my goal posts moved again and this time my attentions moved on to making my bears detailed ..without losing their simplicity..that's a tough one to do because any thing that looks simple often isn't and I worked on facial detailing and body shape changes.

I've recently worked towards building a good reputation for my bears and establishing my name.

I would love to earn a good living from making bears but never want to be full time since in my mind I think I'd stop loving it if I didn't have my hairdressing too.

For future goals I would love to win a competition one day..and establish my bears further afield. Very long term ( I hope!!) it would be nice for my bears to be around long after I am gone!!

Why do I make bears? I think they tick every box for me in terms of feeding my need to create and be inventive and make some money.

[Laurie]

I think my aim in making bears is to eventually get my name known out there and would like people who buy my bears to enjoy what they have bought and hopefully have the bear for a long time as the standard of workmanship is high and they will last.I would like to do a bear fair and advertise more than I do now although time and money can be a problem.Paying for an advert in a magazine or getting 3 more pieces of mohair instead is usually the choice that I have to face but the temptation to spend it on mohair is too great and the advert gets left yet again.
My long term goals are to make bears that I am satisfied with as I always think that there is room for improvement.It has taken me nearly two years to even like what I am making!
I make bears because I enjoy being creative and how can you resist those little faces when you bring them to life.Any money that you make is a bonus as it enables you to buy more materials.:)

[Melanie Jayne]

Jenny and Laurie you both make really good points and I can totally agree with you both.
Jenny Wrote...............Why do I make bears? I think they tick every box for me in terms of feeding my need to create and be inventive and make some money
I have tried loads of different things and bear making is the only thhing that has made me tick like this, thats why I do what I do and I enjoy what I do.

Laurie wrote........ Any money that you make is a bonus as it enables you to buy more materials
Laurie I also agree with you too, it is only recently that I have been taking money out of my business for none related bear things. While it is good earning money from something that I love and create, I hope money never becomes my sole driving force as I think it may stop my creativity as that is what happened with my paintings and I no longer enjoyed it, but you never know what is to happen round the corner

[Laurie]

I agree Melanie that money should never be your main driving force as I don't think that you can create bears unless your heart is in it as it affects how the bears turn out.I could never work under pressure or have deadlines in this sort of business as it would take all the love out of making bears.I have never planned how I make my bears.All I do is decide on which pattern,size and what fur to use and I start with the head and once it is stuffed and I have put the try eyes in and a temporary felt nose I go from there.I always have about four on the go and as I am going along I then decide what I am going to do with the bear and even then it isn't an immediate decision -thats why I like to have a few on the go.I even like to have a reasonable stash of mohair so I have the time to think what I want to do with it.I am hoping to have a go at xmas with some knitting as I have had the wool 6 months and haven't gotten around to using it.I would love to be able to knit some things for my bears-something that my mum would have loved to do for me.It is nice to work for yourself but only at your own pace and when you want to do it or all pleasure is lost.It is a bonus when you sell your bears but making money on them shouldn't be your sole aim.

[Chowlea Bears]

To become technically proficient striving for 'That Perfect Bear'.
To find a style that others will instantly recognise - but I want to be known for the quality of my work. (Maxim quality not quantity applies to me)
To make a Bear that will sell for squillions £££££££££££££££££££££

[Jenny]

I don't think it's wrong for money to be what motivates you make bears..or anything else. If it is the only thing that motivates you then that will show in the work that is produced.

I make no secret that I want to make a living out of my bears. I would not make them if I did not make something out of selling them. Well..let's say I would not sell them if I didn't make a profit..I would feel insulted by getting a pittance for my hard work ..I'd rather give them away.

I earn good money hairdressing and look upon it that what I do when I make bears is equally skilled..if not more so. Therefore if I don't make a decent living making bears I'll go back to the salon full time because I need to live.

If I had to choose between bear making or hairdressing I would choose the bears because I feel they express my creativity better and I love doing it more than doing peoples hair. I don't knock hairdressing though..it's given me a good living over 30 years and I've loved every minute of it...but I am glad I found bear-making as it stretches my imagination to the limit.

I love that!!

[Melanie Jayne]

Jenny I completely agree with you that the money should not be the only motivation and although money is not a key factor for me at the moment I would like to work towards the time when bear making provides me with a living too. At the moment I am just trying to put money back into my business so I can hopefully see the benifits in the future

[All Bear]

Money has to be a motivating force to run any business effectively. Selling bears is no different from selling any other product if you want to stay in business. Aside from having confidence in your product, you have to work out cost efficient methods, an achievable pricing structure and most of all, you have to plan ahead financially the whole time.

Selling teddy bears is a business, plain and simple ... the Tax Man will tell you that. Yes, it satisfies creativity and it's great to work in a field that offers that ... for me, that's so important and it's why I continue to fight on the financial battlefield of achieving my income from art. And yes, it's great if you have the luxury of perhaps only having to break even at the end of each financial year because you have another source of income, or because your partner's salary pays the bills, but all in all, being in the business of selling your own designs profitably isn't a lovely fluffy place, it's a practical place where balance sheets, hard graft and determination keep you from making a loss and falling by the wayside.

[Jenny]

You're dead right Paula..and I think it's key in why it's so difficult to get established.

From the get go I decided that I would start off with charging what I need to earn from making bears...and if people would not pay for that then I would not have a business.

In the real world you set up in business ...you set out your stall and people pay the prices you ask for what you are selling..whether it's cars, loaves of bread or teddy bears. If you don't sell any at that price then you either revisit your profit margins...you look at what's wrong with what you are selling...or you stop trading.

In bear making we have something of a dichotomy because some makers don't have to make a profit...for whatever reason. Maybe they don't see what they do as a potential means of earning an income, i.e it's just a hobby...maybe they don't depend on it...maybe the tax man doesn't know about them..or maybe they are shy about asking a good price for their work.

But what happens is, that my prices..(and ,Lord knows, I need to make a living and the tax-man knows me for sure!!) then look like I am raking it in and I find I am justifying myself because I make part of my living from the bears I sell and therefore I need a decent profit margin.

So while it does satisfy my my creativity inasmuch as I get great pleasure from the work I do...first ,last and always I am in business..and the books have to show a profit at the end of the year.

[shelly]

Paula, I hear where you are coming from, my husband is self employed and so I understand the tax implications. I feel that although I am a newcomer to rabbit making I would like to think that one day someone would like to buy my rabbits. That said, I know if I do make it into a business , it would be a second income and I know being able to say that puts me in a very priviledged positon, a bit like being able to be a stay at home mum.

So although it is great to be able to turn a hobby/stroke passion into cash I imagine turning it into a profitable business comes with it's headaches and stresses.,:6088:

[Jenny]

Yep...Shelly..and it's the beginning bit that's hard too because while you are establishing yourself you can't charge the big prices that some folks get for bears because people need to know who you are and see your work first. So it's a case of a slow build up to running it as a business. Once I decided I was going to run it as a business it was a case of sink or swim... I still think it's hard to justify my prices when bears sell on ebay for the cost of the fabric...if that...that does no-one any favours!!!

Oh well...off me soap box and back to work for me!!!!! I just joined the gym....he-he...Myleene Klass...watch out!!!

[Laurie]

I agree Jenny-the hardest bit is getting your name out there so that there is a demand for your bears and you can justify your prices a bit more.Paula and you have been in the business for a while and have your name established because people know the quality is there and the bears you produce have got the wow factor.I could not expect to sell my bears for your prices as people wouldn't pay that as they don't know me and I need to get my bears to the sort of standard and wow factor that yours have.Hopefully I will get there in the end!I got told off when I took my bears into our local bear shop the other day and he told me that I should be charging £30 more on a bear than I do now but I have to weigh up whether to sell them a bit cheaper or up the price and just have them sit there.I make my bears to a high standard but I still have lots to learn in different teqniques and to make my bears that bit more special.I wouldn't sell them for nothing though and as I am now gradually getting better(it has taken 2 years) I have gradually upped the price on my bears and would refuse to accept less than a certain amount for them as otherwise if too many people charged too little it would do no favours for the bear business.

[Jenny]

Laurie..compared to Paula I am a new kid on the block. I do think it takes a while to build up a reputation for good work..and you need to get coverage in magazines etc to make people aware of what you do.

I don't believe that price has much to do with bear buying though..I think if the bear is appealing to a collector, within reason the price won't matter too much...so if a bear was not going to sell at £90 it won't sell at £50 either. I don't think that theory is exclusive to bears...I think it applies across the board. I think you could put your £30 on your price and they'd still sell. If it was a £300 increase you might have a problem!!!

Maybe you have to tweek your bears slightly to justify the change ...perhaps add something to the design.

However, I don't think that people should go round hiking up prices to ridiculous levels but you do need to make it worthwhile.

[davistedds]

For me, I just want someone to think 'Ooooh I love that bear!' :) And the one they love would be mine, that would make it all worth while ;) For me..... :rolleyes:

[All Bear]

Jenny, you make me sound like an old lady!:p (Not far wrong!)

I've been rattling around in the bear world for quite a few years, well over a decade, so being the curious sort that I am, I guess I've pieced together a degree of understanding over the years. It's an unusual industry because the market competes with itself at such differing levels. I mean, if you want to buy a particular type of rowing machine for example, you do your price research and discover that overall, companies offer them for sale pretty much within a certain price bracket; Joe Bloggs doesn't tend to be selling at cost simply because he's been in business for a shorter period of time. However, in the bear world, newcomer Joe is possibly selling just to cover his materials so that he can replace them to make his next bear, because he doesn't think he'll achieve sales if he adds in his labour cost and profit margins. After all, he's not well known, so wants to get his foot on the ladder somehow.

The old argument that quality of work varies so greatly and therefore so does price, doesn't really wash with me. Newbie Joe may be selling a 20" bear at say, £60 or less, whilst anyone who is better established may be selling at materials, plus labour, plus profit ... ie., well over £200 for the same size of bear. It's true that Joe will find it hard to achieve over £200 for a 20" bear, but if it's beautifully made, originally designed and professionally offered, I believe he should be competing on an equal footing in the marketplace, give or take a few bob. What Joe should be doing is building his reputation for quality by achieving editorial coverage, entering competitions and so on, rather than watering down the overall realistic pricing structure within the established industry. After all, let's face it, it's unlikely Joe will stay in business for long if he continues to sell without making a profit. So my belief is that Joe needs to show confidence in his work by pricing realistically, if he truly believes his work is saleable.

I really don't believe that being a newcomer to a craft related industry means lesser quality. I've seen many newcomers to the bear industry who offer beautiful work. If newcomers don't achieve beautiful work before they decide to offer it for sale, they shouldn't really be offering it for sale in the first place. Yes, we all progress along the way, but it's important we serve an apprenticeship and invest in our product before we release it for general sale, ensuring our work is of a standard worthy to stand alongside established works. That way the market works competitively, but fairly for all concerned.

[Chowlea Bears]

it's important we serve an apprenticeship and invest in our product before we release it for general sale, ensuring our work is of a standard worthy to stand alongside established works. That way the market works competitively, but fairly for all concerned.


That's exactly what I was trying to say in my hamfisted way. Your words are much more eloquent Paula. Thank You.

This thread has provided a lot of 'food for thought'. Thanks to all who have contributed.:6034:

[shelly]

Here, Here !!:6086:

[Judi Russell]

Couldn't agree more, and it has proved to be a very thought provoking topic.

[Ruth]

Referring to the same quote from Paula's very well worded reply (why can't I do the "quote" thing :confused: ) I've always liked the idea that the thread and fibre folksies have with their Thread Artist Guild - they have a logo to go on their work, or auctions , and they have different levels of attainment too .It's become a very respected and recognisable "label" of quality.I know that lots of you wonderful artist peeps on here don't need such a thing ;collectors would sell their right arms for your bears :D :D , but maybe it would help newbies with their confidence to ask that bit more for all their efforts :6039: Speaking just for myself ,I find it very difficult to envisage that anyone will ever pay past a certain amount- especially for very little bears ; and I would hate to come across as sort of being outrageously demanding (if you know what I mean :( ) As I'm not doing this as a livelihood I feel all apologetic about it, I suppose I'm a bit silly....
Ruth

[Jenny]

I actually think a guild is a great idea...but who would run it and who decides what level of attainment an artist has reached because it's subjective. Years making bears doesn't mean much either..there are new srtists, as Paula says, that have achieved high standards in a short time..and in my experience in hairdressing I know people who have been practising for as long as me and I wouldn't let them cut my dogs hair...so just coz you've done it for years doesn't mean you are automatically good at it.

I do think a guild where work is submitted and you can only display the logo if you are accepted might work to help new artists...people can then buy with confidence..and it would be a useful platform for promotion...

It's difficult one because it would need to be run by folks who have absolutely no vested interest in admitting or refusing artists membership..and where do you find find people like that???

[Chowlea Bears]

It would seem to me that a Guild may be a good idea because it would give confidence to new creators that they were developing their skills appropriately(I don't think I've earned the right yet to call myself a artist). Its a vicious circle - selling indicates a level of approval that new people like myself don't yet have - yet you need a certain following to be able to sell without undercutting established artists or undervaluing your work.

Perhaps the Guild could be composed of a committee (established artists, new creators, collectors, etc.) that do anonymous 'judging' maybe at specific times of the year (time constraints) ? How do the other Guild's work? I would offer administrative help if that's any use. Obvious pitfalls have already been noted in other posts - but I don't think we should dismiss the opportunity of creating something valuable.

I think fees etc could be an issue - yet probably organising it would need financing.

Most professions these days have a Mentor - would that be a helpful way to go?

[All Bear]

I was approached earlier in the year to think about the possibilities of a teddy bear guild. I did a little research through British Bears on the Net and from the results, drew the conclusion that although bear makers and collectors think a guild of some form would be a good idea, it was unlikely to be supported financially at a level that would make it feasible for someone to operate. After all, it would take a great deal of time and effort to run efficiently and that would require salaried funding, as well as administrative funding.

If anyone is interested in joining a guild, there is always 'The British Toymakers' Guild'. They have been in operation for a long time and whilst they aren't solely for collectible bears, they do judge the quality of workmanship via a panel of judges ... I used to be a member and recall having to send two pieces of work for consideration. Back then (about ten years ago) membership was around £80 per year. The BTG offer a great service and are really helpful for newcomers keen to sell their work.

[Chris Russell]

If you want to know more about 'The British Toymakers Guild', go to 'Exhibitors' scroll down to 'Toy Safety' and click on their website. Everything you need to know is.......or can be on this site ;)

Chris

[Lorna Evett]

H folks

Been in Spain for the past week (sunshine was bliss), anyway so trolling through the threads that have popped up, I started reading at 5.30 this am (bit of an insomniac).

Just to add my bit, I love bear making and consider myself an amateur because I cannot give up my job to do it full time and my bears take a while to complete. I would love to take more time to design and create more bears, but cannotI did my first fair recently and was next to a lady who created stunning bears and I thought "oh my gawd" self doubt crept in, however I had a lot of interest shown in my bears, and felt the general interest in mine just shows that tastes differ and not everyone goes for the same thing.

The issue of pricing is difficult. I can honestly say that although a lot of time and effort goes into what I do, I am not confident to charge more money than I do for my bears. I have only sold 7, but considering I only put them on show so to speak a week before I went away to Spain, one day at a fair where I sold one, and then I took them to work and sold six with an order for three more. However, I would not want to put the more established artists out by not charging more money.

Hey Ho! Will check my lottery ticket this morning and if i win loads, will give up my job and spend more time with my bears.


Does anyone feel like I do that "parting is such sweet sorrow" sometimes I just dont want to sell what I have made, I love them too much :confused:

Lorna
Nibz Bearz

[Ruth]

Oh I definitely know what you mean Lorna !! If I'm not making something that is specifically already for someone (ie. a commission) I can get really attached to some bears .They look at me and sweetly but firmly implant themselves -permanently- in my hug ;) I've done swaps where I've had to make a second bear,eBay bears who never go to sale and even a few heads that I keep for myself until I've got time to create a body !! However I also seem to be able to put myself in a "surrogate" frame of mind ,and I never lose my heart to the project in hand then! Yes I am a "fruit loop" aren't I !? :6034: Some bears just look at me with extra twinkle :6086:
Ruth

[Lorna Evett]

Well I cant leave my job this week, just won £21.20, so bought a gammon and pate for Christmas!!!!!!


Lorna :(