Any Answers

[Lorna Evett]

I am pretty much an amateur bear maker but all the same love what I do and love the new bears that I create.

I have one glitch which perhaps someone can help with, can anyone recommend a good means of tightening nut and bold joints. Just when I think I have it right, it seems that they loosen off. How tight would you recommend that i go.

Would love to chat to any other amateurs.

Lorna:)

[Judi]

In answer to your question Lorna, the best way of tightening N&B joints is to use nut drivers. When you tighten the joints, do it up until it will go no more and then slacken it off by one or two twists of the nut drivers. Athough you think that your bears arms and legs will never move again, don't worry, once he is stuffed and finished off you will find his joints nice and firm. Let me know how you get on. Judi :)

[Lorna Evett]

thats great, thanks. Have a bear to finish soon, will let you know how I go on.

[Tilly Storr]

Hi,

Just to add my two-pennyworth! We use Nyloc nuts when we are making bears with nut and bolt joints. These nuts have a little ring of nylon inside which grips the thread of the bolt, and is so much less likely to unscrew. We haven't had a single bear returned in the last three years because the joints have become loose.

Also, we stuff the limbs and so can't access the bolt head when it comes to screwing on the nut. Consequently the bolt can turn, preventing the nut from being screwed on. We use a little pair of pliars to grip the bolt and then use a nut spinner to screw on the nut as far as possible. We then grip the bolt above the thread, and use a flat spanner to finish tightening the nut.

If we have to take off the nut for any reason, we never reuse it; we always use a fresh one.

Good luck with your bear making!

Tilly Storr
Tillington Bears.
01223 837701

[Lorna Evett]

Thanks again. I am going to have to unpick one of my bears, because just as i thought I had got it tight it has loosened off after I had completed it, most frustrating.:mad:

[BridonStudios]

Hi Lorna,

This was a topic we covered in our first book when we designed a large 30" bear called Harvey. Obviously the joints on this bear would need to be secure so I came up with the idea of bolts with 2 nuts. The procedure was this:

The joints would be the same as the normal split pin (cotter pin) wooden type but the pin was substituted for a bolt instead. I had seen various methods but the age old problem of securing the head of the bolt whilst tightening was the problem. To use the 2 nut system, first the joint is assembled in the head or limb in the normal way with the bolt protruding from the limb or cavity. Then simply place the 2nd wooden disc on the bolt followed by a flat steel washer. On to this, thread the first nut down to the washer and tighten until the head or limb can be moved easily with just a little resistance.....it is not a wheel nut on a car:) so it can be tightened enough quite easily, in fact you should be able to do this with your fingers.

Now the clever bit....when you are satisfied with the degree of tightness, simply thread on the 2nd nut right down to the first one until it contacts it. Take a flat spanner and hold the first nut secure then using a second flat spanner simply tighten the 2nd nut very tight to the first nut without allowing the bottom spanner to move and 'Voila' the joint will not work free at all without using the two spanners again.

It sounds involved but it only takes seconds to do and the beauty of it is, there are no glues etc to use plus if at any time in the future that the joint needs tightening a tad due to pile wear on the fabric etc...it is a simple job to open up the bear and 'tweak' the joint with a couple of spanners.

This method could be used on quite small bears as the bolts and spanners are available from most tool stores in virtually any size you require. All you need to do is make sure that the spanner you use for the base nut is not thicker than the nuts you use...otherwise you will not be ablt to tighten the nuts against each other properly.

Hope this helps.

Brian

http://www.bridonstudios.co.uk/extras/bolt.jpg

This picture shows two spanners tightening a joint to illustrate the method

[Lorna Evett]

That is a great idea. Will certainly try that one out.

Lorna:)

[All Bear]

I am pretty much an amateur bear maker but all the same love what I do and love the new bears that I create.

I have one glitch which perhaps someone can help with, can anyone recommend a good means of tightening nut and bold joints. Just when I think I have it right, it seems that they loosen off. How tight would you recommend that i go.

Would love to chat to any other amateurs.

Lorna:)

Tighter!!! :p

Joking apart, I use a ratchety tool (techie term!!) the head of which fits over the nut, holding it firmly in place while I screw my screwdriver into the end of the (wait for it ...) screw. When my screwdriver won't screw any more, I then ratchet the ratchety tool to tighten the bolt from the other side. I find this makes life really simple. The ratchety tool came in a little spanner set with detachable heads of varying sizes and it cost about £5.99 from Homebase. Incidentally, I'd recommend using the nyloc nuts too ... they stay tightened! I buy mine from a local company I found in yellow pages ... they sell heavy duty split pins, nuts, bolts, washers ... the works.

[Lorna Evett]

HI Ya

Could your rachety tool be a socket set????? I want a little one that you can have a bend in. I not only have problems making things fit into the holes, then I get bits tangled in, then I worry cos its too tight, then is it too loose, then I wonder why I bother, then I love the end results. I have had some good suggestions and have not been afraid to make bolts tighter, I must look for a supplier of nyloc nuts and bolts and stuff. But as I am having a teddy bear stall soon (my first one) I am not making any more bears. I get addicted to it and just think, oh I will make another one, then just another. I have had such fun. I like my bears a bit ugly.

Anyway now I am rambling. You are probably yawning. Thanks for your techno suggestions.

Lorna

[All Bear]

Ah yes! SOCKET set, not spanner set!!!! What was I talking about?!!! Good to know someone on here can work out my waffle!!

It's a great little tool and really does the job. One little trick I use when tightening the joints, is to count how many turns of the screwdriver (the bolts I use have screw heads) and how many turns of the ratchet I take to tighten the first leg joint, then I count the same number for the second joint. The theory is that I get equal tightness on both joints that way ... well, that's the theory anyway! :p

[Chris Russell]

Hi there,

I'm intrigued that all these problems exist and we at Christie Bears didn't know about it. I love this site, I am finding out sooooo...much!!

When we first took over Christie Bears we tackled the Nut and Bolt Joint issue. Firstly, we only use Nyloc Nuts, secondly we use Bolts not screws (gives a better grip for tightening) and lastly, two metal washers. All metal parts are plated and clean ie not covered in oil. For those people outside the UK our discs are made of Hardboard, not Fibreboard therefore they are much longer lasting (should see your bear well into old age!!)

To tighten our joints we recommend Nut Drivers. We have two types, 'Straight Handled' and 'T Handled'. A combination of the two will allow you to hold the bolt head in comfort with the 'T Handle' whilst tightening the nut with the 'Straight Handle'. The 'Straight Handle' nut driver's handle is moulded soft feel that gives you great grip and allows you to fully tighten the joint before you release it just a little bit.

For those of you who still use Cotter Pin Joints we are about to launch a new Cotter Key with a soft feel moulded handle which will also give you better control when tightening Cotter Pin Joints. We will be bringing them to the NEC at the weekend.

Good luck on Sunday. Look forward to seeing you there.

Chris

[Steffi]

Hi Chris

I was interested to read about your new cotter turning tool. I don't need one with a softer handle but one that is hubby proof!:) So far he has managed to break two of the smaller ones by turning them just a wee bit too much. I am seriously looking at using nut and bolts on my smaller bears now, so far have only used them on a couple of large bears that I did as a commission. Mind you I am not sure that even those would be hubby proof and he is soooo much better at making sure that joints are secure. He is also much keener at stuffing now thanks to our magic tool. We were recommending it at Glasgow, having done our bit at Kensington to help improve sales! :D

Hugs, Steffi

[shelly]

Hi Chris
In your opinion what are the best joints to use, the cotter joints or the nuts and bolts?
I haven't used the nut and bolts yet and I'm interested in the pro's and con's of both.

Thanks Shelly.

[Lorna Evett]

Hi

I have only used nuts and bolts in my big bears, in the beginning I made a lovely bear using cotter pin Huge ones! but he is still a bit heavy for them and so arms and legs a bit active, and realised nuts and bolts the better option, but I am sure someone will love him. I am still practicing with the nuts and bolts. Hubby made me a cotter pin tightener out of a screwdriver, filling it to a point, then cutting down the middle hard to describe but it works well for a slightly tigher turn. However, i still do use my cotter screw thingly which i bought right at the beginning, I use hardboard discs, well I get them from you chris anyway. I know people prefer tight joints, but to be honest when I pick them up to hug them they do drop nicely on you.

Best Wishes

Lorna:)

[Chris Russell]

There is no obvious answer as to which is best across the board - it depends on the size of the bear and the physical ability of the makers. Traditionally most joints have been cotter pin, but as has already been said, the larger bears do tend to put these joints under some pressure whereas the nut and bolt joints are much more substantial.

At Christie Bears, our joints start at 4mm diameter and from here up to 12mm we only supply cotter pin joints, this is because in the very small bears, nut and bolt joints are too big and likely to be felt and seen through the stuffing. 15mm joints and above we provide an option of both types up to 88mm. At 100 mm we only offer nut and bolts. Our cotter pins increase in diameter through the size range to accommodate the increased pressure on the joint but to be fair, once we are above 30 mm the nut and bolt joint will always be stronger.

This having been said, a number of our customers suffer from arthritis in either their fingers or wrists and their ability to use the tools will dictate which joint they choose.

So the answer to the question, which is best? is I don't know, so we provide both options, and also, for the time being, plastic joints as well for you to try, and you must make up your own mind. Sorry!

On the subject of the new Cotter Key, the soft feel handle gives much better comfortable grip to exert greater pressure and control than before. I have had them specially made by one of Europe's highest quality tool makers and they have been designed to resist the efforts of the most ardent user to break them. However I am not laying down a challenge here, suffice to say I believe them to be much, much stronger than before and I would welcome feedback from our customers to that effect.

Lets hope we all have a good day on Sunday.

Best wishes

Chris

[shelly]

Thanks Chris,
I think I will definitely try both. At least I know it is down to choice and size of bear which will help me make a decision.
Shelly.

[All Bear]

If it helps any, I use the nyloc nuts and screwhead bolts for bears from 15" up to about 25". When I've made bigger bears, I've used heavier duty bolts with longer shafts and standard nuts. They've been fine for my big 'uns up to 32".